Bob Mottram - bashrc@zap.freedombone.net

Bob Mottram

Thu, 24 Jan 2019 12:48:10 +0000

In the world of federated social networks I think zot based systems will grow more slowly, because you don't have the same kind of oversharing which can occur on systems with less control over how you interact with other users.

This isn't necessarily bad. Just something to be aware of when folks say "my system has more users than your system".

Chava ⚡

Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:08:23 +0000

🔁 Repeated @Bob Mottram's Note

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:24:36 +0000

I'm OK with that. More users and less control means a higher noise floor, and noise is the natural enemy of communications.

Marek Ľach

Fri, 25 Jan 2019 20:13:09 +0000

@Bob Mottram @Chava ⚡ @Mike Macgirvin ⚡ Fine point.

Nomad app

Bob Mottram

Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:14:07 +0000

Reading from within the Nomad app an obvious criticism is that there's not much visual difference between original posts and replies to posts. The whole thing just looks like one continuous stream. Perhaps this is intentional.

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:29:22 +0000

For me it shows up with the default "light grey" posts and white comments, per the default theme settings on the website. Any chance you're using a theme variant or have "high contrast" enabled on your device?

Bob Mottram

Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:47:53 +0000

I'm using the dark theme.

Bob Mottram

Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:50:35 +0000

I think this is a combination of the dark theme with certain screens. On my laptop the lighter background of original posts is more visible, but within Nomad on a mobile screen it's almost indistinguishable.

Zap question

Bob Mottram

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 09:53:50 +0000

Do things in /store really need to be world writable?

show all 7 comments

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 10:15:35 +0000

No. They only need to be writable by the webserver. We do have mode 777 in the install documentation somewhere because some people with shared hosting and cpanel can't actually change ownership of a directory. I believe we mentioned that these permissions aren't optimal but this saves several pages of explaining how to determine what user the webserver runs under and how to change ownership recursively to people who don't have root access and can't change it if they wanted.

Bob Mottram

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 10:28:28 +0000

Ok so that's good to know. My security tests were nagging me about it (at least they work).

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 10:31:01 +0000

Can /store be completely unavailable to the world as long as the web service has read and write?

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 10:31:01 +0000

Can /store be completely unavailable to the world as long as the web service has read and write?

Waitman Gobble

Sun, 04 Nov 2018 01:36:57 +0000

@Bob Mottram @Mike Macgirvin ⚡ @Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

I'm pretty sure uploaded files/photos live there

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Sun, 04 Nov 2018 07:45:48 +0000

Can /store be completely unavailable to the world as long as the web service has read and write?

Yes.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Sun, 04 Nov 2018 08:28:58 +0000

Thanks, Mike.

Bob Mottram

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:37:02 +0100

Testing with the Nomad android client.

show all 8 comments

Bob Mottram

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:46:28 +0100

Ok, I didn't expect that it would.

kris ⊛

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:33:34 +0100

@Bob Mottram

You were right

Osada need an app. That is mandatory !!!

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 22:37:05 +0100

Tusky uses the Mastodon API. I'm in the process of adding the Twitter API into Zap and Osada so at least you can use things like AndStatus and Twidere (and whatever else). Folks are free to work on the Mastodon API if they want. Most of it is just repackaging the Twitter API. In the meantime I've no problem endorsing Nomad as an app for all of Zotland.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:16:19 +0100

Dark theme looks good.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:32:26 +0100

Zap looks like a continuation of Hubzilla.

The technology of Zap is ahead of everything else. Zot is definitely better than anything on the fediverse. But where it falls behind is user interface design at an obsessive level of attention to detail. How many clicks does it take to do the most common things? Are there icons for the most common operations? Are related things visually grouped together? Stuff like that.

Currently finding other users to connect to is non-obvious, and that should be part of the initial process when you first create an account or channel.

show all 19 comments

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:53:55 +0100

On Zap.dog, the setting for showing "New Member Links" is set, so I have a panel on the right with all those things that you describe, e.g. the heading "Find and connect with other" with the items "View the directory", "View friend suggestions" and "Manage your connections".

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:56:36 +0100

One improvement could be to make a first user tour where friend suggestions are given, but right now the focus is on getting stuff to actually talk to each other, so any help on improving this is appreciated.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:57:41 +0100

Also, I am not sure the panel I described is visible on a phone, i.e. a first user tour makes a lot of sense there.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:02:16 +0100

Yes that would make sense. Also when you go to the directory it would be a good idea to have non-local users shown by default. I understand the historical reasons why it doesn't work that way, but for something aimed at users rather than site builders this is just extra friction.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:05:24 +0100

On the grey top bar there's maybe room for two or three icons, even in a mobile type of screen size. It might be more intuitive to use icons for the most common things, rather than menus.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:09:45 +0100 last edited: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:10:08 +0100

Perhaps that could be toggle during the first user tour?

"Start small? (Toggle Go BIG!) (i) Next >".

(i) could be a tooltip to explain the Fediverse is really BIG, so there may be people around the world who post stuff that is Not Safe For Work".

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:15:08 +0100

App icons can be pinned to the navbar, so everyone can set their favourite.

I just pinned the Photos app to my navbar.

This is done from the hamburger menu > Add/manage apps.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:20:07 +0100

I think the Zapmin can set a lot of default settings for the App icons to help new members on board, which would make a lot of sense for Freedombone, but I am not sure about this.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 19:35:00 +0100

What's zapmin?

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 20:11:44 +0100

Silly me - Zap hub administrator.

kris ⊛

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:44:11 +0100

🔁 Repeated @Bob Mottram's Note

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:30:04 +0100

Zap looks like a continuation of Hubzilla.

In some respects yes, but it is also a radical simplification. I've tossed hundreds (possibly thousands) of features and settings which may have had value in a content management system or community portal, but are much less useful in a basic social networking app.

As you've pointed out there are still a few rough patches, but in Hubzilla we tended to lose people before they even finished registering; and nearly always lost them the first time they opened their settings page.

On the bright side Zap is a lot easier to maintain primarily because it doesn't have all that extra baggage.

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:44:04 +0100

I'm sympathetic to the default global directory choice, but this is what it is for a reason. We had a few explicit adult sites and people who weren't actually members of those sites were showing up on the directory page for those sites. This could cause undesired issues with employability and security clearances and marriages so we defaulted to site only. The site admin can over-ride this default and once you toggle it your choice is remembered. It was a real quandary making this decision and a lot of people weighed in, so I'm not comfortable with undoing it. We just need some documentation to inform site admins so they can default to what's best for their situation.

Bob Mottram

Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:51:09 +0100

Yes I vaguely remember that.

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 02:09:37 +0100

Incidentally I can't find a copy of the earlier conversation on a site where I'm registered and able to comment, but the Zap logo is U+26A1 "high voltage sign". I believe fork-awesome also has an fa-bolt that is similar or at least "close enough" from my viewpoint. Ultimately I'll probably take U+26A1 and mirror-flip it so it's more of a 'Z'; but in the meantime I'm using it unmodified.

Waitman Gobble

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 03:01:46 +0100

On my phone it's gold/yellow, desktop is white/silver

Mike Macgirvin ⚡

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:27:44 +0100

@Waitman Gobble The colour is because I think the project default fonts try to provide a colour emoji font and different platforms have wildly different choices for this. I've noticed the same in the "reshare" icon which changes colour across different Gnome versions.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Zap Dog)

Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:27:46 +0100

@Bob Mottram - I was mistaken about the App icon hidden settings, we need a plugin for that, see Matthew Dent's comment at https://osada.usezot.net/item/92786524-0e01-4017-a846-bc28f16a7ab6